Embedded in Community Dance In this episode of DanceCast, Silva interviews Bronwen Wilson Rashad, a UK-based dance artist who has worked within several different communities.
Embedded in Community Dance
DanceCast is a podcast that spotlights non-traditional dance artists. It is produced by Silva Laukkanen, an advocate for inclusive dance based in Austin, TX.
In this episode of DanceCast, Silva interviews Bronwen Wilson Rashad, a UK-based dance artist who has worked within several different communities. Bronwen shares how she was part of Julie Liebel's group which had the goal of accommodating her artistic practice while parenting, and how it eventually led her to work with a perinatal mental health team running creative sessions for babies and parents. She is also a member of Molly No-Mates, a traditional Morris folk dance group performed by drag kings, as the word “molly” is associated with queer people. Bronwen describes how she emphasizes process over product when working in community dance settings, prioritizing getting people comfortable in their bodies and finding expression through movement.
Bronwen Wilson Rashad is a dance artist based in the Forest of Dean in the UK. She has a background in contemporary dance and social anthropology. Having grown up outside the UK, with Welsh and English heritage, her practice reflects her interests in belonging, place, and folk culture. She works to create spaces where people can co-create new folk traditions that say something about where we are now. Over the past four years, she has led the Dancing the Parenting project, working with women and babies who are being cared for by the Perinatal Mental Health Team in South Wales. She is also a member of the drag king folk dance group Molly No-Mates. She is currently investigating how she can help a community find its dance.
To learn more, visit www.bronwenwilsonrashad.com.
Welcome to dancecast, the podcast in which I interview people who create inclusive dance all around the world. My name is Silva Laukkanen, and I am your host. Welcome to episode 86 of dancecast. I don't think I have quite updated about my life events lately. So in September 2024 I started my master's program at The Place the London contemporary dance school where I'm studying for my MA in dance for participation communities and activism. And in this next series, I'm actually interviewing a couple of my classmates and a couple of students who are from the year before. So now this episode, I got to talk to Bronwen. Bronwen And I kind of connected immediately, and it has been a carrying force throughout this MA practice, or this MA practice and studying. So here is Bronwen. She's a dance artist based in the Forest of Dean. She has a background in contemporary dance and social anthropology, having grown up outside the UK with Welsh and English Heritage, her practice reflects her interests and belonging, place and folk culture. She works to create spaces where people can co create new folk traditions that make space for us all and say something about where we are now. Over the past four years, she has led on the dancing the parenting project, working with women and babies who are being cared for by the perinatal mental health team in South Wales. She's also a member of the drag king folk dance group Molly, no mates. She's currently investigating how you can help a community find its dance for the purposes it seeks. She wants to see if social and folk dance forums can help us understand how to build communities that are ready and resilient for the fight for our collective future, a dance grace with a purpose with something to say. I really hope you enjoy this episode with hilarious Bronwen. And this is kind of exciting, Bronwen, because I don't know so much about your professional life, like, I feel like we were speed dating.
Yeah, we were speed dating. We like, know each other intensely, and not at all.
Right, isn't that weird?
I mean, it is weird, but, you know,
in a good way,
I think so on the whole although maybe you'll find out more about me and then you'll reconsider our entire relationship.
Um, tell me. Tell me, how did you end up in art world, dance world? I know that you're re-entering the art world and the dance world, so tell me where it all started.
Um, well, I think it all started when I was three years old and wouldn't stop dancing. So got sent to dance classes, well, probably, like a lot of people. And then when I was a teenager, I sort of went down the ballet route like, like a lot of people do. And then when I was about 13, I did weeks basement with the Hong Kong ballet company. They did like a youth outreach program. And on the final day, there was this person who came in and did like a, kind of like a choreography workshop with us and myself and Wilson Chan, who is another dancer, choreographed this piece, and then she kind of took me aside, and she was like, You're too tall to be a ballet dancer, and you're also clearly, well, I was about six foot two in pointe shoes, right? I mean, you know, this is a long time ago. And she also said, and you are clearly a contemporary dancer. So that's when I started training in contemporary dance at the Academy Performing Arts in Hong Kong. And then I'm trying to think how to tell this story without telling you my entire life story. Then I went to university and did something academic, you know, because, like, art is not guaranteed, and it's good to have something to fall back on. Was my mind and my parents thinking, I guess. But at University found in contemporary dance group, and we used to put on shows. And I mean, it was actually like, when I look back on it, it was such an amazingly talented group of people. Was one of them was Katie Green, who is a has a dance company in the UK, does some really amazing stuff in libraries and things. And then the other person that I worked with a lot was Anna Morrissey, who's the movement director for the Royal Shakespeare Company now. So, like, it was quite a it was quite a good group of people to find myself in by accident. And then I actually, after university, I thought about studying at the London contemporary dance school, I talked myself out of it, because I think dance meant so much to me. It was so important to me that actually the idea of committing to it and saying, I am a dancer, or I am going to do dance, and then the risk of the I don't know, that failing actually just stopped me from doing it,
I was actually about to say, you might have just saved yourself and your love for dance by not doing it then.
Possibly, actually, because it was what, like 25 years ago, or something like that. Anyway. So I went and trained as an actor, which is a terrible idea. Don't know why I did that, but it was a very good training, and really good. And it was also a school that is very left wing. It was the school that was founded based on Joan littlewood's work, and she was a working class theater maker. So it was an interesting place to end up in anyway. When I was there, I met someone called Becca. We set up a theater company basically because no one was giving us any work. So we thought we'd make work, and we mainly made devised theater pieces, except because I was involved, there was always some kind of dance slash movement element in it. But I mean, you know, I'm very privileged in a lot of ways, but my dad's an academic. You know, I didn't have, like, a massive amount of money to allow me to swan around London, not doing anything else. So I found myself in this situation, which I think a lot of people find themselves in, where I was doing lots and lots and lots of temping jobs, doing something completely different, and actually only having a very, very small portion of my life that was made up of art. And I remember, like really clearly one moment morning, waking up and realizing I was the PA to the head of global banking at HSBC that week in my temp job. And I was just like, do you are we allowed to swear on your podcast?
Yes, you may.
Yeah, I think it's worth it. I woke up and I was like, What the fuck am I doing? This is not the life that I signed. You know, I'm not actually living according to my principles. I'm not doing what I want to do, and I'm not actually making that much art, really. So I stepped away from the theater company, and it was, it was awful, because it was like all of my childhood dreams and ambitions. It was like saying that that was all over. I really did think it was like, that was it. I was walking away from that entire industry or world, or part of myself. Now I realize, and I think in some ways, like those intervening years, I was probably grieving it and how it ended, or felt like it ended, and then I had kids, and I met Kareem, and then we moved to Canada, and then I was, like, really isolated, and then I met this amazing dance artist,French Canadian dance artist called Julie LaBelle, who did a call out for like, just community members. So it was a community Dance Project, and we were going to do a flash mob with our strollers, with our push chairs buggies. And then what happened was actually a load of dancers turned up with their babies, and then she realized that this was there was something in this, and we created the dancing the parenting practice to what we called it. So we'd meet once a week, and we'd work out how we could carry on dancing, whilst at the same time accommodating our roles as parents. So it wasn't so it was. It was very much an artistic endeavor and practice that we had, but with the inclusion of an acknowledgement of our other role of being a care, a carer or a parent, and also being influenced and inspired by the smaller people in our group. And what happened was that so, yeah, so that happened, and I think that was probably what saved or what drew me back to thinking that that might be possible. You know, like you have children and you get older and your body just doesn't do things in the same way, and I had a very old, old school idea of dance, because I'd been brought up in ballet and, you know, contemporary dance training, and you're meant to be able to leap high and roll around and all the rest of it. And that process that we went through with Julie was like an unlearning of all of that stuff, and actually finding how dance can be, like, actually real,
right!
And then, like, fast forward, but like, came back to the UK, ended up kind of slowly getting dragged back into the theater company that I'd set up with Becca because she needed help with educational stuff. Then started getting more involved. Then, like COVID happened, then they asked me to choreograph a silly kids show, and then, and then it kind of has snowballed from there. But really, I would say that I've only seriously been saying that I'm like any kind of movement person for the last, like four years, five years, maybe now,
wow,
yeah.
And what was that solo that then you ended up breaking your ankle and all of that happened was that around the around dance?
No, I broke my ankle roller skating with my children at Christmas, doing a fun activity. Supposedly, I used to love roller skating, but I don't do it, though.
And then that snowball ended up because you were supposed to film a solo.
Two days after I broke my leg, was the date where I was meant to be filming a music video, which was going to be a solo dance piece. So that obviously didn't happen. And then there was also, there was loads of different things that kind of were happening that January that then didn't happen. And weirdly, in that moment, I don't know what drove me to do it, considering I was literally lying down with a broken leg, and that's when I applied for the MA participation communities activism at London contemporary dance school.
And now you are at the London contemporary dance school. Yes, studying. Now I am in the middle of studying it.
Yes. Yes, yes. Um.
And you also now have your own group that you facilitate of mothers and and caregivers and babies. So tell me a little bit about that work.
Yeah, that was really interesting. Basically, someone in the so, in the UK, we have the Arts Council, and there's Arts Council and Arts Council England and Arts Council Wales and Arts Council Scotland. So someone within Arts Council Wales that knew me from the theater work that I was doing, but that also knew that I had a background working in mental health services, because that is something I did in the intervening years. She said there's this person starting a project with the perinatal mental health team, and it'd be really great to have a movement person on it. So I'm going to put you in touch with her. So I met this person, Elle, who sits within our national health service in South Wales, but she is responsible for spending, or she was responsible for spending the arts budget. So, you know, if you get, like, a mural painted in a hospital wall, or, like, when they get musicians to come in from the National Orchestra, you know, to do choir and all that kind of stuff. So they set up this project, and I was working with a visual artist, Deborah Aker Jones and a musician, Alex Lupo. And the perinatal mental health service works with people who have either are pregnant or have just given birth, who have severe mental health difficulties, and because there is so much pressure on our health service at the moment, we're talking about like people at the end of that kind of scale. Because I would say that everyone needs support just after they give birth. But to meet the criteria to be in that that service it has, you have to be self struggling, quite significantly. So we set up these creative groups. And like, to begin with, it was a bit of an experiment. We only did it for six weeks the first time, and we had mixed media for every session. So they would be like, Deborah doing something like clay or painting, and then me doing some kind of movement stuff, and then Alex strumming on his guitar. And like, bringing musical things for the babies to play with, and it was just kind of figuring it out. And then we worked together for like two and a half three years on that, and it slowly kind of evolved, and that was all funded by one funding body, and that kind of came to an end because that funding had decided that their next priority was going to be teenagers. I would make the very strong argument that perhaps keeping on spending money on the early years might be a really good way to make teenage medicine
with parents and caregivers who could be stable parents. Yeah, there's some there's some logic to our thinking, though,
you know, like, it's not like I've actually studied this, and no, I could put you to the research that shows you the link between parental mental health and adolescent mental health or anything. But anyway, so that came to an end. So then I raised funds through the Arts Council and also the health service that we were working with, they gave funding in terms of their staff time, and we ran the project from this last year. So it was 21 sessions and
throughout the year?
yeah,
nice.
So it was every single week on a Tuesday morning, from like October till March, and we met up literally every week, apart from Christmas week, yeah, and it was very, sometimes it's quite hard to describe what happens in that group, I would say it's definitely process focused rather than product. Like we weren't. We weren't learning how to dance to do a show, or we weren't
right.
We were the only thing that we were trying to get better at was to feel comfortable in our bodies like we weren't trying to become masters of anything in particular. It was all about being, actually finding what gave us pleasure in those movements, and expressing different things through movement. And we did a huge number of different explored a huge number of different things, but we drew quite well. I drew quite a lot on like developmental movement, so obviously there's a whole dance, like strand of thinking about looking at how toddlers move and learning from them. But also, obviously, we've got babies and toddlers in the room, so we literally try to do what they were doing. I mean, sometimes it's quite painful. I'm telling you now those babies, they're very flexible and bendy and don't have stiffened joints, but, and sometimes it would be, I mean, like, there's just so many different things that used to come up, but it was very organic, and it would very much be led by the group and their mood and what people were feeling. And then, obviously, over time that builds, because people start having a repertoire of things they know that we could do, and then start saying, Oh, can we go back and we do the river again? Or can we go back and we, can we do more of that developmental movement? Or, you know, whatever it is. And, like, for example, the week before Christmas, we made the decision that we were going to just lie on the floor,
right.
So we just lay down and we let the babies crawl all over us. They absolutely loved it that week, which was, like, an amazing lesson, right? In that kind of like, actually, when you do nothing as a parent, you're still doing an awful lot. So like that, that idea of taking time for, yeah, taking time for yourself is not a, it's not a, it's not a lazy thing or an add on. It's kind of like essential. So yeah, and it was just, I mean, like, you know, bonkers. We did all sorts of things.
So when did the Molly dancers came along? And what explained to us, what is Molly dancers?
Okay, so side quests. I I've actually wanted to join a folk dance groups. I think since I was quite little, I remember going to something in Wales and seeing a group of traditional Welsh dancers and being like, they've got really cool skirts. I like that skirt, and like and, you know, the patterns that they form. And I've always loved going to like barn dances or Kaylee's, or I really enjoy those events like that. I just find them joyous. And how did I find out about it? So I do read poetry in public sometimes, and someone else I know who is also a poet, she put something on Instagram, I think, where she'd set up this group called MOLLY No mates, and it's a form of Morris dancing. And Morris dancing is traditional English folk dance. Molly dancing is a sub genre for Morris dancing. And traditionally, as far as we know, I mean, it's always up for debate, because some of these traditions turns out not actually that old or that traditional, but from the from the records that we've got, Molly dancing was only really ever done over winter, and it was normally done by and it was always in the east of the UK, so in the fenlands, kind of around Cambridgeshire and that part of the world. And it was done by out of work plow hands. So agricultural workers, when they didn't have anything going on, and they would do social dances of the age. So it might be like a quadrille or something like that, you know, like whatever the social dances were that were fashionable in fashionable circles, but they would be taking the mickey out of it. So one would be dressed as the Lord and one would be dressed as the lady. So it normally be a man dressing up as a woman. And they would go to people's houses. They would go to people's houses and dance and threaten to plow up their lawns unless they gave them money, and that kind of thing they were, they were like, basically, like rabble rousing. And then it all culminated on what's called plow Sunday, which is around the end of January, when, traditionally, you take a plow into the church and it would get blessed for the season ahead. So that's like the backstory. So then, but Scarlet decided that she wanted to start a molly dance group that was visibly queer. Because, apart from anything else, the word Molly has been associated with queer spaces and queer people for like centuries. So I mean, if people have heard of something like Molly houses, these were like houses in the 17th, 18th century, that gay people would hang out in or effeminate or queer presenting people. And that was something that was that is recorded in British history, that they existed. Obviously Molly dancing has drag as an essential part of it. So her idea was that we would be a sort of group of very kind of non binary gender query type people, and we would dress up, we sort of look a little bit like chimney sweeps.
You know, that's true.
Yeah, like braces, braces and waistcoats and handkerchiefs and all the rest of it,
and suspenders or what are you
Yes, braces, yeah.
You call them braces,
yeah. And then very elaborate mustaches. All of our facial hair, I have to say, has evolved so much over the time we've been together. But we we started and we learned some dances from other so Molly or Morris groups are called sides. That's like the terminology. So some dances we learned from other sides, and some dances we made up. And we have taken some traditional folk songs and then added lyrics of our own that speak to stuff that we're interested in one of our very first dances that we learned. Katie cruel actually comes from an American side. We sort of obsessively watched a video of guys with ties doing it on the New York subway. So if you want to Google something on YouTube, that's a really fun watch. They're amazing dancers. So yeah, so it's been a mix of those different things, and then as we've gone up, I mean, it's only 18 months that we've been together as a group, but we're, we've, we've done we're doing good. We're getting invited out to, it's interesting, because we get invited to more like traditional Morris spaces, but we're also getting invited into other spaces that might not have Morris, but they're queer, so it's kind of like there's a lot of cross pollination, but in that part of my life, I'm very much. I'm not in charge,
right.
Which is quite nice,
nice.
It's also like quite weird for me, because as someone who works probably mostly with improvisation, it's like you have to learn your steps and where you are in the room, which sometimes is confusing, and sometimes, I think, because they know that I work in dance, they're like, Oh, you can do any one. And I'm like, No, which one's right? But when you get the dancers right, they're incredibly satisfying to do, because it's all about geometry, really. It's all about like, shifting people through a space and, and, and, yeah, and, I guess we use our kind of stuff to be able to protest about things that we feel passionate about. And it's interesting because people don't, they don't seem to be able to object or know what to do with a group of people with hilarious mustaches who are skipping essentially because you don't look like you're particularly political threat when you're skipping around. But actually, the stuff we're singing about, and just the the presence of the people in the group and who they are is a political act.
Yeah? So yeah, you're like, you're like, in political awareness of like, what is currently happening, and kind of with this dance group, like meeting the need and bringing it out in the open,
yes,
by using this Molly dance,
and also just very gently turning up in traditional folk spaces around being totally well. And by everyone, I have to say, like, we have been universally welcomed in the folk world, like, as in just turning from those spaces, and just like, creating a bit more room for a bit more diversity in those spaces. And it's we, it's really interesting, the reactions that we've had from other Morris sides and, like, I mean, how it's just all been universally really warm, and like people in other sides being like, well, I'm I'm gay, but I've never really, you know, like, talked about it or whatever. And we did one at the weekend, and this young woman went into the shop that we were doing at the dancing outside of and was in tears, but she was like, I never thought I would see people like me in my little, tiny town in the middle of Devon, like, I can't believe that I'm being represented in this, like, what is often people think is a very hegemonic, nationalistic kind of traditional space. So, yeah, yeah. And it's very funny because, like, Morris Dance is often very like, but, you know, it can be like, quite like, quite, like sticks and like noisy and loud, and then we go on and we do, like, a little dance to Mika's Billy Brown, like, I mean, we were also very hardcore, and buch times as well, obviously. But yeah, it's a real it's really interesting, the different dynamic that it brings. Yeah.
That's so cool. And then you just got some fellowship or the choreographic lab. What was that thing that you were awarded?
So that is the Jerwood choreographic research project. So that's funded by the Jerwood Foundation, which is, like a huge kind of arts funder in the UK. It's being managed through fabric dance, which is a really amazing organization in Birmingham that does a lot of there's loads of different things, actually, but they're kind of like holding it and essentially it. They did a call out asking for people to put proposals in of stuff that they wanted to research. And they said they were particularly interested in stuff that was perhaps disruptive, perhaps like looking at changing the status quo, perhaps kind of all working in spaces, maybe that are less represented, or, you know, all the kind of things. And you know what it's like you I mean, I apply for loads of things all the time, just like, you know, you just do. I just expect to never get them, because most of the time you don't like I'm still surprised I got onto the MA, I mean, like, you know, I'm just like, what really okay. And I put in a proposal saying that I wanted to work in my local area. So I really do want to work in my local area, apart from anything else I travel so much for work, and I just really sick of it, and I want to make work where I live, but also because I'm I'm an outsider in the area that I live in, in that this area is called the Forest of Dean. It's the most ancient woodland in the UK. Has a deep and complex history. So in this part of in this section of the country, it managed to keep some of the common law rights that the rest of the country lost during
And you in Wales?
No, no, there's it. No, it's England. But it's this very funny, like on either side of the Forest of Dean are two rivers. One is the river Severn, and then one is the River Wye, and the border with Wales and England is the River Wye. So it's kind of like an island that's not really England, and it's not really Wales. It's its own country, and it's has a very different kind of perspective and culture. So I was I said that what I wanted to do was to find out what dance the forest of Dean needs right now and for what purpose, and drawing on my knowledge of like, folk and social dance, using those as kind of frameworks to start finding that movement. And I'd say that I'm definitely I don't know where it's going to go. And like, this is the other lovely thing about this award is that there is no production attached.
You don't have to come up with some end result.
I don't have to actually have to make, made anything. I'm just doing research. Invest. Yeah, and like, some really amazing projects have come as a result of getting this award. So there's one that called conversations between a man and a girl. And there's another one Dan Cannon's running with wild horsesthat both started off as a this this prize, basically. So they started off doing research, and then it kind of grew into a show that was developed. I mean, I don't know what purpose we're going to decide that we want to create this dance for. But, like, I am definitely inspired by people like, let's say, taste this. You know, the Chilean feminist group that created the dance "the rapist is you". It was done by hundreds of 1000s of people in South America, and kind of Latin America. And also I've been really interested in watching people using Pina Bauch's the Nelken Line in protest in America at the moment. So I think, and it's a technique that I'm slowly starting to understand myself, that that that is what I do, in that I really enjoy kind of harvesting moves from people like either that, you know, their favorite move, or like a movement that means something to them. Very simple stuff. I mean, I'm like, particularly interested in, like, hands and arms and and, and then also, so either doing things in a circle or in a procession or in a corridor of people, you know, those different formats which are very recognizable for people. And I say hands and arms mainly because most people who don't consider themselves dancers, so most people who sort of don't professionally consider themselves as that way inclined, find it really, like, get really kind of confused when you have to use all of your limbs at the same time. Like, you start getting in your own head about it like, oh my god, now I'm learning to dance and I can't remember the steps. So, like, it's what I like doing is building up very, very kind of simple, really kind of graphic choreography that then can be repeated and can be moved in different ways. So it can either be moved in a circle, right? Or the circle could become a procession, or it could be used in a kind of ritualistic way. Or you could take those moves and do it to completely different music and change it totally, you know, so and I mean loads and loads of folk dance kind of keys into it, because if you loads of folk dance is referencing day to day's activities. I mean, even Molly dancing,
oh right.
You know, Molly dancing, you just did whatever social dots today, so, like a real interpretation, maybe now with Molly dancing would be doing the latest tick tock craze, right? Because that's the latest social dance, or whatever it is, you know? So,
yeah, dabbing. I'm sure I'm old...
Yeah, that's a bit out of date. Silva, just gonna say. Dab is like about eight years ago. And what's interesting is I know that, because the way I got sort of pulled, sucked back into this world was I did a few projects in schools and helping them create their own choreography. And obviously we're going to pull on stuff that they're familiar with. And I remember the first school, the first year I did it, the boys did not want to dance, like there was a real resistance. And then I went back in, like, two years later to do it with the same school, and all the boys suddenly were like showing me their moves and like coming to the front. And the thing that had changed was Fortnite because every time you do a kill and do an emote. You do a dance, you know, like crimson sunset. There's, like, the, what's it called Flossie, you know, like, all of those movements came from that video game.
yeah.
And suddenly boys were dancing and giving me movements, and then I could take elements of those movements, and then we could turn it into something else,
nice. And that's kind of definitely, it definitely did change. I remember the same thing, or, like, there has been several, I know I'm old. I was doing very old thing.
But you're much more on top of the current yes things. I'm like, seriously, 10 years behind,
yeah, we're not, we're not in youth culture.
I think I remember my kids, like my boys, and my boy and his friends would start doing, like, different dances and like, they would film them and like, all this thing that I never would have thought that, you know, I'm baseball playing. Yeah, it would want to do, but yeah, that has definitely changed the landscape around, like, movement and dance for boys and for this, like teenage element, you know, fourth, fourth, fourth, fifth grade boys. It's wonderful.
yeah, but that's when that technique started to come up. And it's interesting. I've only really thought about it. Recently, but I actually did social anthropology at university, like I you know, and really what I'm doing is ethnographies of people's dance, and the dances that I create with them are an ethnographic record of them and their movement.
That's brilliant.
Sounds good, right?
Yes, oh my gosh, Bronwen.
but I think that's what it is. Think that's what it
Yeah, yeah. That's definitely like, that made sense when you said it, yeah, um, so Bronwen, What is it? You know, you said we're the same age. You already hinted on this, like aging body and like this whole idea who can dance, and what does dancer look like, and what age is that dancer going to be, and what movements is that dancer going to make. So what is your like? 5, 5, 8, year dream, where you want to be,
well, I would like to still be making most of my earnings from dance, because that is really nice, as in, I don't want to go back to having a normal job again, please and thank you. I think there's definitely that's a hard question, really, because I've only just got around to accepting that this is what I'm doing already.I think I probably would. I mean, in five years time, I would love it if I was at a point in my career where I was getting invited to go and do projects with particularly large groups of people on kind of with with decent funding. That's what I would like. I just, I'm just thinking at the moment, like Dan Cannon, who I mentioned earlier, who is really interesting to me and his career. He's just done a piece in Sunderland where they were, like, embedded in the community for a really long time, and they've just done this, like, in incredible show with like 150 community participants in it. It's like massive but it was like a very interactive performance, and it looked like a real celebration of that base. And that's, that's where I want to grow to. It's like to be able to do commissions at that sort of level. But what direction that goes in, I'm not sure, because I think I'm definitely not as interested in traditional theater spaces anymore. I just I myself, find myself getting quite bored and uncomfortable in theater seats, and I'm much more interested in experiences like creating that sort of collective experience. And I'd really like to look work with really large groups of people, because I think that's something I know, that's something I'm actually quite good at in other work areas
like the festival cleaning crew process that you created and choreographed, you gotta just, yeah, you gotta tell us quickly about that whole thing.
Oh, that's Glastonbury Festival. It's like one of the biggest festivals, music festivals in the world. And I run the litter pick for it. So I have a team of 3000 volunteers, um, who I choreograph around the site to make sure it's nice and tidy, and we do all the recycling. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm making
to the beat of Beoynce's to left, to the left,
yeah, every time, yeah. And then I get into zoom morning warm up routine. It's hilarious, but I suppose, in a way, like that's the point that I would like my dance career to be at in five years time, is feel it, because in that job at Glastonbury, I am totally I'm so comfortable with that role, like it's always challenging. I really know who I am and what I'm doing. I would like to have that sense of ownership of my dance life and also be working with, you know, either big groups of people or on stuff in a really intense way, where we make something really interesting, and maybe have my own company. I would, in 10 years time, I want to be a Beyonces choreographer. No, I don't be able to do that. I. I mean, you, you know, I'm interested in dance films, so like, yeah, music videos and all that stuff. I love doing all that stuff.
I didn't know that. Why did I not? Because I didn't listen to you...
I don't know. I might not have talked about it. I've done a lot of different things. If I, if I talk about everything, it just becomes overwhelming. I've also been a goat herd,
really having 3000 goats, that's where you get it.
No there are only 30 goats by goodness to milk them all by hand.
Okay. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Bronwen Wilson Rashad, I think it's fair that I say her full name at least once during her podcast episode. So here it is. This was an episode with pranwen Wilson, Rashad.