In this episode of DanceCast, Silva Laukkanen is actually the interviewee. She is interviewed by co-worker April Sullivan and Art Spark Texas’ executive director Celia Hughes. This episode is part of a series interviewing institutions with inclusive dance programs and individuals who identify as disabled and have experienced formal dance education as either students or teachers.
Seeking Barrier-Free Dance Education
DanceCast is a podcast that spotlights non-traditional dance artists. It is produced by Silva Laukkanen, an advocate for inclusive dance based in Austin, TX. In this episode of DanceCast, Silva Laukkanen is actually the interviewee. She is interviewed by co-worker April Sullivan and Art Spark Texas’ executive director Celia Hughes. This episode is part of a series interviewing institutions with inclusive dance programs and individuals who identify as disabled and have experienced formal dance education as either students or teachers. This series is part of Silva’s ongoing work as the director of Art Spark Texas’ dance program and their multi-year community-engaged research project, funded in part by the National Endowment for the Arts, that explores disability-centered accessibility in dance education and how we can create barrier-free dance education for students with disabilities in the US. Silva shares her dance history and how she was introduced to inclusive dance spaces as a young person, how the disability dance field is behind in terms of education, and how Art Spark Texas’ research project is assessing what existing opportunities are out there and what more needs to be done.
Silva Laukkanen is a passionate advocate for inclusive dance, aiming to broaden perceptions of who can dance and where dance happens. These questions led her to create DanceCast in 2016, a podcast spotlighting non-traditional dance artists, and to co-author Breadth of Bodies, Discussing Disability in Dance in 2022, a book featuring interviews with dance artists with disabilities globally. As Director of Integrated Dance at Art Spark Texas, Silva Laukkanen leads bi-annual intensives, performance projects, and monthly classes. In 2020, she co-founded Tractus Art with a colleague from South Africa. Together, they produce videos highlighting artists with disabilities and are working on a children’s book about a dance company founder who is Deaf, set for publication later this year. Silva also collaborates with other inclusive dance companies, providing support in arts administration. Silva holds a BFA from North Karelia College and a postgraduate degree from Trinity Laban Conservatoire. A certified DanceAbility teacher since 2003, she has trained with choreographers and companies like Adam Benjamin, AXIS Dance Company, and Dancing Wheels. Currently, she is pursuing an MA in Dance: Participation, Community, Activism at the London Contemporary Dance School and serves as the board president of Kaaos Company, Finland’s leading inclusive dance company.
To learn more, www.artsparkdance.org.
00:00:28
Silva
Welcome to Dance cast, the podcast in which I interview people who create inclusive dance all around the world.
00:00:36
Silva
My name is Silva Laukkanen and I am your host.
00:00:50
Silva
Welcome to episode 72.
00:00:52
Silva
It's great to be back producing these episodes after a couple of years of hiatus.
00:00:59
Silva
This episode is actually the first one in a series of interviewing institutions with inclusive dance programs or individuals who identify as disabled and have experienced formal dance education as either students or teachers.
00:01:15
Silva
This series is part of my ongoing work as the director of Artspark Texas Dance Program, and this year we are continuing our multi year community engaged research project, funded in part by the National Endowment for the Arts, that explores disability centered accessibility in dance education and how we can create barrier free dance education for students with disabilities in the USA.
00:01:41
Silva
In this episode, you actually hear my thoughts about this research project and how and why it was started.
00:01:47
Silva
This episode aired on Koop Radio, which is our Austin, Texas local radio station as part of our Artspark Texas Radio Hour and it's hosted by my coworker April Sullivan and my executive director Celia Hughes, who in this episode interviewed me.
00:02:08
Silva
I have asked a friend of mine.
00:02:10
Silva
Who is an actual podcaster to read my bio.
00:02:14
Silva
So here you go.
00:02:15
Silva
My bio read by Michael Cote.
00:02:19
Michael
Silva Laukkanen is a passionate advocate for inclusive dance.
00:02:22
Michael
Her work spans from senior centers to professional dancers, aiming to broaden perceptions of who can dance and where dance happens.
00:02:31
Michael
These questions led her to create dance cast in 2016, a podcast spotlighting non traditional dance artists, and to co author breadth of bodies discussing disability in dance in 2021, featuring interviews with dance artists with disabilities globally.
00:02:46
Michael
As director of integrated Dance at Artspark Texas, Silva leads biannual intensives, performance projects and monthly classes.
00:02:52
Michael
In 2020, she co founded Tractist Art with a colleague from South Africa.
00:02:57
Michael
Together they produce videos highlighting artists with disabilities and are working on a children's book about a dance company founder who is Deaf.
00:03:04
Michael
Set for publication later this year, Silva also collaborates with other inclusive dance companies, providing support and arts administration.
00:03:11
Michael
Silva holds a BFA from North Karelia College and a postgraduate degree from Trinity Lebanon Conservatory.
00:03:18
Michael
A certified danceability teacher since 2003, she has trained with choreographers and companies like Adam Benjamin, Axis Dance Company and dancing wheels.
00:03:28
Michael
Currently, she is pursuing an MA in dance participation community activism at the London Contemporary Dance School and serves as the board president of Chaos Company, Finland's leading inclusive dance company.
00:03:40
Michael
I hope you enjoy this episode.
00:03:44
Celia
Hey there Silva.
00:03:45
Celia
How are you doing today?
00:03:47
Silva
I'm okay, Celia.
00:03:49
Silva
How are you?
00:03:50
Silva
Good.
00:03:51
Celia
So can you tell us your name and tell us a little bit about what you're doing right now?
00:03:59
Silva
Sure.
00:03:59
Silva
So, my name is Silva Laukonen, and I am the director of integrated dance at Art Spark Texas, this wonderful organization in Austin, Texas that works in the intersection of arts education and disability.
00:04:16
Celia
And you've got a project that you've been working on through Artspark and all of your connections all over the country.
00:04:25
Celia
Can you tell us a little bit about what this project is and why it's so important?
00:04:31
Silva
Yeah, so this, actually, this project started out of my personal frustration when I was in the Dance and Disability Task force at the National Dance Education Organization during the years of 2019 and 2022.
00:04:46
Silva
And we were having these meetings with the executive director of the organization about accessibility around the conferences that they organize yearly.
00:04:57
Silva
And there was this kind of comments made.
00:05:01
Silva
How.
00:05:04
Silva
Why would we focus on accessibility?
00:05:06
Silva
Because we have no one with a disability coming to the conferences, and everyone who works within the disability art and education field knows that.
00:05:16
Silva
Then people with disabilities don't feel welcomed if there is no accessibility in place for them to join the conferences.
00:05:26
Silva
And I got really frustrated and I went to my boss and said, hey, I want to organize a dance education conference that focuses for the existing knowledge and the amazing innovation and the hard work that the dance and disability field has put in dance education in the United States.
00:05:47
Silva
Because what happens with the dance companies that are inclusive in the USA that they need to educate their own disabled dancers?
00:05:57
Silva
Their dancers with disabilities come often with zero experience to dance or very little, and then they do the lion's share to educate each dancer with a disability to work within their dance company.
00:06:10
Silva
So I wanted to come and honor the work that has happened and to brainstorm ways in which we can make a barrier free dance education happen for students and with disabilities in the USA.
00:06:26
Silva
So that's a little bit what we've been working on since, I think, 2021.
00:06:33
Celia
You know, it reminds me of the experience of some of our body shift dancers who wanted to dance but didn't have the dance pedagogy.
00:06:45
Celia
They didn't understand the terminology, they didn't understand basic dance terms and movements, and because they'd never, you know, they had cerebral palsy.
00:06:56
Celia
Most of them, or some were blind.
00:06:58
Celia
There were people who were, you know, who had different mobility challenges, and they were never taught dance.
00:07:06
Celia
They were never included in any dance classes when they were in school.
00:07:10
Celia
If they went to college, they were not included or couldn't get into any classes.
00:07:15
Celia
And so, you know, a couple of them here really worked hard to get ACC Austin community College to offer some classes, but it really was on their back as an individual with a disability, to advocate, fight, educate, teach, do all of that.
00:07:34
Celia
And it's not ongoing.
00:07:37
Celia
I mean, there is no ongoing class now in Austin because those people have moved on.
00:07:43
Celia
And so, yeah, so I think there actually is.
00:07:48
Silva
Remember, we are actually teaching danceability method as part of the somatic training at ACC currently.
00:07:54
Celia
Well, thank you for that reminder.
00:07:56
Celia
I forgot that.
00:07:58
Celia
Who is teaching that?
00:08:00
Celia
Veronica Dewitt.
00:08:01
April
Oh, Veronica.
00:08:02
Celia
Rock star.
00:08:03
Silva
Rock star.
00:08:04
Silva
The master dance ability teacher, Veronica DeWitt is actually teaching a course within a course of danceability method, which I think, I hate to say it's the only one, but I think it's kind of true, or very close to being true that there's.
00:08:23
Silva
ACC has been committed for a long time, Austin Community College has been committed for a long time to making sure that at least some of their classes are inclusive or addressing dancer disability, which is exciting.
00:08:38
Celia
Yeah.
00:08:38
Celia
And thank you for that reminder.
00:08:40
Celia
I didn't mean to diss ACC.
00:08:42
Celia
It's good to know our friends there are really doing that, and that Veronica is teaching class in conjunction with them.
00:08:51
Celia
And danceability International is a method that's been around for a long time.
00:08:56
Celia
It's a philosophy, it's a way of life that was started by Alito Alessi, and it's true, there aren't very many other pedagogies out there that address disability and dance in any way, so.
00:09:12
Celia
Yeah.
00:09:13
Celia
So this has been a passion of yours since the day I met you, Silva.
00:09:18
Celia
Pretty sure I can say.
00:09:20
Celia
So what is your history?
00:09:22
Celia
What brought you to this?
00:09:23
Celia
What brought you to dance and disability?
00:09:26
Silva
Oh, man, that is a fun story to tell.
00:09:29
Silva
But my mom.
00:09:30
Silva
So I grew up in Finland, and when I was five years old, my mom determined that I had way too much energy and something had to happen.
00:09:40
Silva
So she took me to a ballet classes, and pretty much I don't remember anything else from my childhood, except once I entered a ballet class, that was what I was going to do for the rest of my life.
00:09:51
Silva
I was going to be a ballerina.
00:09:53
Silva
And so that was my focus from.
00:09:55
Silva
Since I was five years old.
00:09:57
Silva
And in Finland, high school is not mandatory, so I never went to high school.
00:10:02
Silva
But right after 9th grade, I went to study dance full time.
00:10:06
Silva
And very soon in that first full time dance education, I was maybe not so kindly, but I was made very aware that I was never going to be a professional ballerina.
00:10:20
Silva
But at the same time, I was introduced to contemporary dance and contact improvisation and modern dance and all these other things that replaced quickly my love of ballet.
00:10:31
Silva
And then I went to study for my degree in dance.
00:10:39
Silva
And it was about a year and a half into my studies, and we were performing in this old mine, and it was a performance number seven.
00:10:50
Silva
And I remember thinking, oh, man, I do not want to do this for the rest of my life.
00:10:55
Silva
It is the most boring thing ever to repeat these same motions evening after evening, like, pretend like I'm giving it my all.
00:11:05
Silva
It is like a factory work.
00:11:08
Silva
I do not get anything out of it.
00:11:10
Silva
But I was, like, 21, and all of my life I had focused on being this performer and ballerina or a dancer.
00:11:17
Silva
And so I was quite lost and quite confused and did not know what to do.
00:11:22
Silva
I had never had any other passions.
00:11:25
Silva
I never played an instrument.
00:11:26
Silva
I had never done literally anything else except focus on becoming a dancer.
00:11:32
Silva
But luckily, I was one out of five students that my professor took a rehabilitation center where we offered dance instead of physical therapy for one week.
00:11:42
Silva
And that week changed my life.
00:11:44
Silva
We were on Friday, last class, after, like, a Friday jam, dancing together.
00:11:51
Silva
We sat in the circle closing the week and sharing our experiences.
00:11:55
Silva
And there was this woman who was very moved.
00:11:59
Silva
She had not shared a lot about her life during the whole week, but in that closing circle, she was extremely moved and extremely touched by the way we all were together.
00:12:11
Silva
And that kind of.
00:12:12
Silva
I was like, yes, this is how I want to feel in every dance situation of my life.
00:12:20
Silva
Like, this is the kind of dance I want to do.
00:12:22
Silva
I didn't know about dance and disability so much, but I started researching after that and found out that in London, in England, in a school called Laban, there was a professional diploma for community dance studies that focused very much bringing dance into people's lives as a hobby and as an art form, not as a therapy, not as a fixing method, but really just as an enjoyment of the art form.
00:12:50
Silva
And so I applied that school, and I got in, and I was introduced there, more precisely to dance and disability.
00:12:58
Silva
And I got introduced to Adam Benjamin's work and all of that.
00:13:02
Silva
And from that point on, I been very much focused on the dance and disability world.
00:13:11
Celia
So ballet's lost is the dance and disability world's gain.
00:13:15
Celia
We are so happy that your mom recognized that you have energy, which you continue to have, and took you that class and that you are here with us today.
00:13:28
Celia
We are really, really happy to know you.
00:13:31
Silva
Right.
00:13:32
Silva
And I actually want to also thank my professor, because I'm pretty sure, I don't think I ever said so.
00:13:37
Silva
Also, my degree, dance degree program, was very somatic pace, so even if we had ballet, we were learning it through, like, grounding and our organs and all of that.
00:13:49
Silva
So it had already opened my eyes and my life and my moving body experiences to thinking about movement differently than just 5678 and repeat what you're seeing.
00:14:04
Silva
And then I think she really saw this kind of struggle that I was having, that I didn't know what I was going to do with this degree or even if I wanted to continue.
00:14:14
Silva
And her taking me as one of the team of five students was really.
00:14:19
Silva
It changed my life in a positive way.
00:14:23
Celia
Well, that's terrific.
00:14:24
Celia
And so from that, you are now spearheading this national research into dance pedagogy, and how are you going to crack open the system to make it more inclusive for dancers with disabilities?
00:14:45
Silva
Well, I hope with the help of my colleagues and friends in the field, not by myself, for sure, but that leads me.
00:14:54
Celia
So who are some of your colleagues in the field that you're working with?
00:14:58
Silva
So, originally, we did a research within the field of dance and disability, asking that if we would gather and spend some time together, what would be the things that we would want to cover and who would be the people that should be there and what kind of feelings we would like to leave this gathering with, and where would you like to see this happen?
00:15:21
Silva
And those 20.
00:15:23
Silva
Oh, my gosh.
00:15:24
Silva
27 people.
00:15:26
Silva
27 participants.
00:15:28
Silva
Yeah.
00:15:29
Silva
Are dance educators who have created methods or better coaches to teach inclusive dance.
00:15:37
Silva
They are dancers and dance educators who have the lived experience of going through a dance education with a disability.
00:15:47
Silva
They are company members or founders who have a disability and have some sort of an educational program within their company.
00:15:56
Silva
They are department heads for dance departments and universities and higher education.
00:16:04
Silva
I think that's mostly very, very much focused on the dance education and not so much on the artistry, because I feel like actually, in the US, the artistry has the dance and disability.
00:16:18
Silva
Artistry is strong, always could be stronger, but is strong and going forward.
00:16:24
Silva
Whereas, you know, I was not born yesterday, the story about my dance education didn't happen yesterday.
00:16:31
Silva
And still we cannot say that there is this dance education in the USA that will accept a person with a disability.
00:16:39
Celia
Well, and part of the group, the people that you have talked with over the last couple of years and, you know, and putting together this gathering, they, some of them are, you know, have been in the field for a long time as a dancer with disability.
00:16:53
Celia
And, you know, I think the stories that they share sort of mirror each other in that they had to create their own path.
00:17:04
Celia
They had to.
00:17:05
Celia
They had to break down the doors.
00:17:07
Celia
They had to say, yes, this is possible.
00:17:10
Celia
This is what I want to do.
00:17:12
Celia
And in many instances, had to do it on their own.
00:17:15
Celia
I mean, had to start their own company or train their own people with, you know, going against the grain of the, of the typical dance industry.
00:17:26
Celia
Would you say that's true?
00:17:28
Silva
Oh, for sure.
00:17:30
Silva
For sure.
00:17:30
Silva
And it is, you know, still that is the case.
00:17:35
Silva
I'm a bit worried when I think about, like, hey, where is our rising young dancers with disabilities?
00:17:45
Silva
We don't know because we can't go to an education and say, oh, they're all here getting an amazing education, just like their non disabled peers.
00:17:53
Silva
Like, that just does not happen.
00:17:54
Silva
And I feel like almost every instance that I know of where a student with a disability have gone to a dance education setting has not been like that, extremely positive than I feel like often their non disabled peers have.
00:18:14
Silva
So we really need to focus on trying to think, how can we make this happen?
00:18:21
Silva
What are the missing pieces and us as a field together?
00:18:26
Silva
How can we facilitate the right people in the right places?
00:18:31
Silva
Because the knowledge is there.
00:18:34
Celia
So what is your overall goal for this project?
00:18:41
Celia
And maybe before we jump on what the goal is, what's the process that you've been going through with these people in order?
00:18:49
Celia
I know you've got a gathering, individuals, a hybrid gathering coming up in early October, but what is the process that you all have been going through for the last, you know, year and a half, two years?
00:19:02
Silva
Right.
00:19:02
Silva
So the first research was the one that I already kind of explained.
00:19:07
Silva
And then we've been partnering with civic Arts and Lynn Osgood, who then wrote a report that is available on our website.
00:19:15
Silva
And then we have gone back to sort of catch up for 30 minutes, chats with the 27 original participants, and ask questions like, who are we missing?
00:19:28
Silva
Whose voice should be part of this gathering?
00:19:31
Silva
And from that, we have invited eleven new participants to join us for the gathering in October.
00:19:39
Silva
And everyone was feeling a questionnaire.
00:19:42
Silva
So it has been very important for us at Art Spark that this is, the field is leading this, that we are not dictating how this gathering is going to look like that.
00:19:53
Silva
We are not saying what the topics are, that we really, really listen to field.
00:19:58
Silva
And so Lynn is still with us, helping us to do that.
00:20:02
Silva
And we have now sort of honed into four topics, and these four topic groups are going to meet.
00:20:12
Silva
So each participant now got to choose the topic that they were most interested about, solving and finding the next steps and coming up with the solutions.
00:20:23
Silva
And then now we are these four topic groups are going to meet three times over the summer.
00:20:29
Silva
And then in October when we come together at San Marcos at the University of Texas State Dance Department, they are going to share their thinking and their solutions.
00:20:41
Silva
And these four topics are innovative pedicochi for inclusive dance education, visioning the future of accessible dance education, strengthening collaboration and shared knowledge, and providing inspiration and supporting leadership.
00:20:58
Silva
So this is really, this summer is exciting because now the group is starting to really come together, come up with an idea of how to make solutions and look at, for example, existing.
00:21:09
Silva
Are there already things like that happening somewhere?
00:21:12
Silva
Can we look at a model that is working?
00:21:15
Silva
So that's what is happening.
00:21:19
Celia
So we're really happy to work with Lynn and civic arts because that's her, that's their specialty.
00:21:25
Celia
They bring together groups to do this kind of problem discussion, solving, visioning.
00:21:32
Celia
And so she has really helped us, helped Silva and the groups to hone in, focus in on what are these four topic areas and what are some of the things within those topic areas that people need to think about.
00:21:49
Celia
But, you know, I, like, you know, like you say that we're asking the field to take the leadership in this because, you know, we, we're not the first people out there to do this.
00:22:00
Celia
We're not the first people to talk about inclusive dance practice.
00:22:04
Celia
But I'd like to think that we are maybe leading the way in how to do this in thoughtful and engaging and hopefully impactful ways moving forward.
00:22:19
Silva
And for sure, we are one of the first ones in this level of gathering the field and really looking at the barriers of dance education.
00:22:27
Silva
How can we, I feel like this is the important part, that we have to have these opportunities for students with disabilities to study dance, because otherwise, how do we grow the artistic field?
00:22:40
Silva
It's already like the extra pressure on dance companies that are inclusive to train their disabled dancers is on them.
00:22:47
Silva
And we got to make sure that that pressure and that kind of extra work when this.
00:22:55
Silva
It's already challenging to run a dance company, let alone that then you are inclusive dance company.
00:23:01
Silva
So how can we support the artistry to grow and stay and sustain and be there, up there where it is right now?
00:23:13
Silva
Because now we don't have any, like, we don't have any ways of which students with disabilities can go and just study dance or be like, oh, I'm going to apply for this, this and this program.
00:23:23
Silva
And I know from a previous research that there are even dance departments that if you acquire disability during your studies and you're majoring in dance, you will be asked to change your major.
00:23:35
Silva
So how do we change these policies and practices and how do we shift the mindsets in dance education in the USA?
00:23:44
Celia
I have a question.
00:23:45
April
Are the students with disabilities that are interested in dance, are they part of this process at all, or are we going to be invited later to be a part of it?
00:23:54
Silva
Thank you, April.
00:23:55
Silva
That is actually the group that I forgot to say.
00:23:57
Silva
We have students with disabilities who are currently trying to study dance in dance departments are part of this as well.
00:24:07
April
Great.
00:24:08
Silva
There are not many, but I hope if you're one and you're not part of this, come and talk to me.
00:24:14
Silva
And we also have people.
00:24:15
Celia
Where do they find you?
00:24:17
Celia
Where do they find you?
00:24:18
Silva
Silva they can email me at dancert spark txt.org dot and give the website.
00:24:27
April
Where you said the research was listed.
00:24:29
Silva
All right.
00:24:30
Silva
It is artsparkdance.
00:24:33
Silva
Oh, now I don't know.
00:24:34
Silva
I don't know that.
00:24:35
Silva
Okay, here we go.
00:24:36
Silva
Artsparkdance.org dot.
00:24:39
Celia
Right.
00:24:39
Celia
So artsparkdance.org to find the, to find the research paper, which is wonderfully written and wonderfully thought out, and dance@artsparktx.org.
00:24:52
Celia
to reach silva and I interrupted you, Silva, you were, and you might not remember what you were going to say.
00:24:58
Celia
You were inviting students with disabilities, dance students with disabilities, to reach out.
00:25:04
Silva
Thanks, Celia.
00:25:05
Silva
I love how much you know me because I did completely forget, but you totally brought me back.
00:25:13
Silva
What I was about to say is that we also have a couple of people who have gone through a formal dance education and identifies as disabled.
00:25:22
Silva
They have that lived experience of going through an education with a disability.
00:25:28
Silva
So with that education.
00:25:29
Silva
So those voices are super important and valuable.
00:25:34
Celia
Okay.
00:25:35
Celia
So I'm excited about what's happening in October.
00:25:40
Celia
I know that you are.
00:25:41
Celia
I know that you have butterflies about the whole thing.
00:25:45
Celia
It's very exciting.
00:25:46
Celia
I mean, we've been talking about this for a number of years, and you've had your ups and downs, you know, the days that I don't want to do this.
00:25:55
Celia
Why did I say I was going to do this?
00:25:58
Celia
And now it seems very exciting.
00:26:00
Celia
And all your work is, but you've got a lot of work ahead of you.
00:26:07
Celia
What is your goal for this particular gathering?
00:26:10
Celia
What is your dream that will come out of this particular gathering?
00:26:16
Silva
You know, I was thinking about this question, and it's kind of hard to answer because my dream is already happening, bringing all these amazing people together, even that fact that we are here, we are able to, with the support of National Endowment for the arts, we're able to pay for the participants for their time and effort and for this work that they are asked to come and do.
00:26:44
Silva
There's just so many amazing things that I think we already have achieved that it's kind of hard to even think what the goals.
00:26:52
Silva
I mean, of course, the ultimate goal is that we will have high quality dance education that is accessible and barrier for students with disabilities.
00:27:03
Silva
But I don't know if we can get there in October.
00:27:06
Silva
But if we could make sure that this work continues and keeps on happening, and we could maybe stay in touch and keep on doing this work and meeting with the people and having people excited and meeting new connections and making collaborations, and maybe some small things could start happening in, like, the higher education settings for dance education, or that we could improve the situations of some of the dance students with disabilities that are currently studying by educating their professors about the field and the depth and the deep knowledge and the amazing, innovative, creative techniques that has been created by dancers with disabilities.
00:27:55
Silva
Even if we.
00:27:56
Silva
And I think we can.
00:27:57
Silva
I think we can totally do this.
00:27:59
Silva
So I'm excited.
00:28:00
Silva
I'm just excited about all of this.
00:28:03
Silva
But, yes, I.
00:28:06
Celia
My.
00:28:06
Silva
Maybe my curiosity is around, like, how do we sustain this work, Celia?
00:28:10
Silva
What are we going to do next?
00:28:12
Silva
How do we make sure and that we keep on cultivating this momentum of this?
00:28:19
Silva
Like you said, we've been working on this several years, which is kind of weird and wild to me, because when I think about people who say, oh, this movie is, you know, we've been working on this movie for, like, five years, and it's really hard to imagine that you actually stay with one thing for that long time.
00:28:36
Silva
But we now have been working, you know, for this gathering for four years.
00:28:43
Silva
And it's just, I want to keep on working on this.
00:28:46
Silva
I want to see, because I believe in this field, I believe in the methods and the ways in which dance education can happen and be accessible for.
00:28:56
Silva
I truly do.
00:28:56
Silva
And I truly believe that it is important for the society that we make sure that dance is available and accessible to all.
00:29:05
Silva
Because otherwise, I'm worried that my art form will die.
00:29:09
Silva
What are we gonna do if there's no more dance?
00:29:12
Silva
Like, who wants to go and see a nutcracker?
00:29:14
Silva
I'm sorry.
00:29:14
Silva
I'm sorry.
00:29:15
Silva
A lot of people do.
00:29:17
Silva
I go and see it.
00:29:19
Silva
But, you know, like, we also have to have something else.
00:29:22
Silva
Something else than that that is really old now.
00:29:27
Celia
Well, I have to say that happening.
00:29:30
Celia
Well, the Nutcracker, for many young girls, is the same experience as your five year old in that ballet class.
00:29:41
Celia
Do you agree, April?
00:29:42
April
Oh, yeah.
00:29:42
April
I mean, I think the Nutcracker.
00:29:44
Celia
Sure.
00:29:45
April
I mean, any.
00:29:45
April
I think the first ballet I saw was Cinderella.
00:29:48
April
And it was so amazing to watch those dancers dance.
00:29:52
April
You know, the whole story of Cinderella, I couldn't even imagine.
00:29:56
April
And so talking about dance education, you're talking specifically about, like, professional dance education and college level.
00:30:04
April
But what about, I mean, is this going to extend to, like, the five year olds and what parents can maybe do to advocate for their young dancers?
00:30:14
Silva
Yes.
00:30:15
Silva
And, you know, one of the challenges is that to my knowledge and understanding in the USA, anybody can just go and say, I'm going to start a dance studio.
00:30:25
Silva
There are no, like, umbrella organizations or there are no guidelines.
00:30:32
Silva
So that field is wilder than the higher education one.
00:30:38
Silva
And I don't have, like, I never was a studio dance teacher, for example.
00:30:44
Silva
And the short time I was, I realized that that is not for me.
00:30:50
Silva
So that field is much less familiar to me than the higher education one.
00:30:57
Silva
I think it's also easier to maybe change structures when there is structures in place.
00:31:05
Silva
We do have a one company that is kind of also studies studio based work within this research, so hopefully she can educate me and us more about that.
00:31:19
Silva
And how can we make that change happen for the five year old as well as for the 25 year old?
00:31:25
Silva
Because it's important that the trajectories are there for the disabled child, as they were for me as a non disabled child.
00:31:36
Silva
I think, yes, there's so much work to do, April.
00:31:39
Silva
You're right.
00:31:40
Celia
Yeah.
00:31:40
Celia
And I think that in some ways that it can be organic, because at the higher education level, you've got people that are taking dance that are, you know, what is the percentage of those individuals who actually go on to be a professional dancer in a professional company?
00:31:57
Celia
But many of them may go back into their communities or end up somewhere where they open a studio.
00:32:03
Celia
And if they have been exposed to this pedagogy and to this notion of including everyone in their dance practice, then they have the flexibility.
00:32:18
Celia
You said it themselves, there aren't really any standards.
00:32:20
Celia
You must do XYZ in order to open a dance studio.
00:32:23
Celia
So they have the flexibility to include anyone who comes and knocks on their door and wants to come in.
00:32:30
Celia
And so I think organically it will filter down.
00:32:35
Celia
But if the student has not been allowed during their education, their childhood, during their high school years to experience it, then it's harder and harder at a college level to want to participate.
00:32:51
Celia
So I'm excited about these conversations.
00:32:54
Celia
I think that they're certainly, this is exactly the right time to be having these conversations that you took the opportunity of the pandemic to really put some thought, and you spent a lot of time talking to people and attending meetings and observing and listening and reacting and reflecting to arrive to where we are today.
00:33:25
Celia
And I think that we don't know what the next steps are.
00:33:29
Celia
We're going to wait and see what the next steps are after in October.
00:33:33
Celia
But, but, you know, you encourage people to reach out to you, but there's not, right now with the, with the movement toward October, there's really not any room for other people to join, join in these conversations.
00:33:51
Celia
But there is going to be room coming out of October.
00:33:54
Celia
Am I correct in that, for other people to become involved?
00:33:58
Silva
Yeah.
00:33:59
Silva
And I think conversations are good, even if it doesn't mean that you're going to be part of this gathering.
00:34:07
Silva
Your voice can be heard in other ways in this gathering.
00:34:11
Silva
We can record it, we can talk about it, I can share it, we can write a plot post.
00:34:15
Silva
You know, like, there are always ways to have your experiences heard and your voice being heard.
00:34:22
Silva
So that is, and it's always valued and welcome with us.
00:34:26
Silva
So please do get in touch.
00:34:28
Silva
We will find a way for you to be impactful and be part of.
00:34:34
Silva
And I have to say, you know, April, you were saying that that's the way for many little girls to become dancers.
00:34:40
Silva
That's actually how my story started.
00:34:43
Silva
My mother and my father took me to see Nutcracker and apparently I was in the audience and I was standing and clapping and saying, hooray, hooray.
00:34:56
Silva
They had to like, pull me down, back to my seat and I would jump up and be hooray, hooray.
00:35:03
Silva
So, totally valid point.
00:35:07
Silva
And I take back some of my.
00:35:08
Celia
Harsh comments about, yes, it's really important.
00:35:13
Celia
It's very important.
00:35:14
Celia
And it is the bread and butter of many dance companies across the country.
00:35:18
April
Even though we've all seen it way too many times, other people have not.
00:35:22
Celia
Well, we describe it.
00:35:24
April
We're going to fade that down.
00:35:26
April
We're just having our long goodbyes there with Silva.
00:35:28
April
But thank you to Silva for being our guest on the Artspark TX radio hour.
00:35:33
April
And we want to finish with a little bit of the Nutcracker.
00:36:39
April
This is a big bandaid version of the Nightcraft.
00:36:42
Celia
We're going to turn it over now.
00:36:44
April